Ramblings Only

Just ramblings, only a vent for emotions, feelings and all the good stuff

Having it all - responses

Tuesday, February 23, 2016

Sorry guys I am not able to respond in comments because the phone interface for blogger sucks.

We are all women and we need to be supportive of each other. I would gladly empathize with a genuine cry for help. The article did not seem like one. My point was and is the same. Women need to own their choices and their consequences and not play victim.

Newmomontheblock, I hear you. It is not easy to leave a 6 week baby and go to work. You had a choice and you did what you thought was right. If a prospective employer judges you for what you did for your family you probably don't want to work for that employer anyway. Good riddance! And your boss called you back even though you quit, and that's because he has worked with you and likely knows your strengths. How come he didn't judge you and think you will leave again? There are employers who understand and some who don't. All I am saying is while voicing our thoughts, women can plan better so they don't have to be in a situation mentioned in the original post.

I have read that other article you mentioned. (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-cant-have-it-all/309020/) Tell me is it a problem only for the women and not the men? I can share a note from a google executive who decided to quit because he wanted to spend time with family. And she 'wanted' to do it, not had to. She had many choices like moving family to DC etc and she made hers. How could the system or government have helped her? I agree with all the changes she proposed - work from home, flexibility, etc. A number of workplaces provide that nowadays, including mine, but still a lot room for improvement there.

And maternity leave does not address her situation. That is a matter of what she wants and what she is willing to forego to get something. You cannot aspire to be the President of the country and expect the Govt to let you take off one year because you had a baby. A country needs a president. Or some similar argument.

Netflix's unlimited parental leave is commendable, yes, they also have unlimited vacation, but did you know they can fire at will, as in, ' thank you, you don't have to come in to work tomorrow'. They operate on the basis of assumed responsibility, they trust you won't let the project tank with your vacation. Same where I work too. If it is a slow period I can take it easy but when times are hard I have to suck it up and slog. All part of the package.

And it is very different from European policies.

European countries offer better parental leave, and all that comes from the high tax that the citizens have to pay. The pay has to come from somewhere. In US, the tax is lower than European countries so they are not paying for parental leave. Work culture in US is more cut throat than Europe, more advancement, US is more open to immigrants too. Cost of living is much higher in Sweden, and parts of Europe because of the employment perks the citizens get. Just trying to say everything comes with a cost.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending

Something has got to give.

If I did not have any help, I would have timed my baby so I could use my sabbatical. I would have used up 3 months of my Bonding leave that CA provides I believe. I didn't use it, half of it is unpaid. I would have used up all my vacation of 4 weeks. 6 months. Plus 1.5 months of Maternity Leave of Absence, I could have managed 7.5 months. Even if I didn't have a sabbatical that's 5.5 months. Then I would have asked my husband to take his 3 months bonding leave plus 4 week vacation for another 4 months. If that was needed.

I realize not everyone has the luxury of taking off like this, but setting the right expectations with management beforehand might help. I did not take a better paying job in a different company because I was planning to have a baby. New job, never goes well with new baby. I did however move to a new sub group and when I didnt like it and I managed to move while 7 months pregnant. I literally went on maternity 2 months after I joined. I was in the same company, but a different team. I made a choice, and I made it work for me and I am still happy with it. I still believe everything happens for a reason.

This is a sensitive topic and everyone feels differently based on their circumstances. More power to the women who can bring on the change.

There are the genuinely poor and needy, like widowed single women or women with irresponsible spouses that need our support and who don't have it all. This article is not about them.

About ranting.. thank you Anon for backing me up. This is my blog, and I am penning my thoughts here. I did not retort in her post. I am usually not judgemental, and always support women, but this article felt over the top and I had to let it out. I tried reading the article again, still couldn't get her point. May be in spite of being brown skinned, only second generation of educated graduate in my family, I am more entitled than her.

Yes women need support. Yes it is a challenge to have babies and manage work life. Yes it is not easy. Yes we need to get help from whoever possible. Spouse is the first. Family comes next. Yes some people do not value women and we need to prove ourselves before being accepted. Yes we have to lean in. (Dont get me started on the article again, leaning so forward she is falling flat on her face, when her husband asks what is for dinner and her employer will not give her more than 1 day off to have a baby)

What I found to work to a certain extent for me is to stagger big changes in our careers. When DH has a new job I make sure I have a predictable one and vice versa. One picks the others slack. It just happened to work that way and seemed like a logical thing to do.

I think it is possible to have a reasonably good career and a reasonably good family life if one has reasonable expectations. No cupcakes on weekdays, or commuting coast to coast with an influential Government job, or being a CEO of a multi billion dollar company! Then for sure something has got to give and that is not limited to women.

posted by SK @ 5:17 PM

9 Comments:

At 7:25 PM, KK said…

Hi - I am not taking sides on this - but the very fact that you mention and I quote " I would have timed my baby so...." shows that you don't really have a clue about some very real life issues and cannot possibly have any kind of empathetic response to this very real workplace problem.
At 9:27 AM, Anonymous said…

KK - Come up with a clear concise view point then we can have a conversation.

I have a very clear stand and I am able to articulate it in a very clear way:

" Parents' (man or a woman) have a choice to bring in a baby into this world. And if they choose to do that , they are responsible for the baby. Employers and tax payers should not be held responsible for helping them take care of the baby. If the parents' decide to abandon the baby then I am all for having the state take care of the baby. I even support charities helping the cause of these children. What I do not support is women (or men) using these babies as excuse for not doing work and forcing the employers to pay and promote them while being very unfair to people who have put in actual work "

How about you - Do you have a clear stand other than calling people clueless?
At 8:42 PM, KK said…

Anonymous - The audacity of saying that women could possibly time the entry of their babies is most definitely clueless. Just because in ones own experience it probably happened within a couple of months of trying doesn't mean the one can generalize about the rest of womanhood being able to do the same. My POV: Women are paying the price for being biologically (pregnancy) and socially held accountable as primary care givers. Until such time this actually changes, employers should play a part in making sure women are not penalized more than men for childbearing and rearing. We are not there yet. We need to be. There is a career timeline setback for a women when compared to her male colleague - even if they have kids on the exact same day. While this exists, we cannot say we have equality in the workplace. Something needs to address this - and for now it has to be an affirmative action-like stance for women in the workplace regarding promotions and pay.
At 12:04 AM, Anonymous said…

KK - I realize people have fertility issues and i understand that having a baby is sometimes controlled by destiny. But we should not take offense so easily. And not everybody wants to have a baby so please remember that as well. Some people make a conscious choice of not having babies. I am not in favor of that but it is their right and choice. Similarly the decision to have a baby is a personal choice every woman makes along with their significant other. Or in some cases all by themselves via donors. Sure it is a great personal milestone and most workplaces already have 6 weeks of paid leave and 6 additional weeks of unpaid leave. Your job is already protected by law so when you return the job is still yours. If you feel discriminated against there are already laws that protects you.

What more do you expect? A years' worth of paid leave by employers? Automatically promote anybody who is pregnant during the year. What if you decide to have 6 babies - promote you six times and offer you several years of parental leave. where do you draw the line?

And if you think people are judging you they would judge you no matter what. You cannot have laws in place to make people feel a certain way.

would you feel comfortable taking the promotion having not worked for 3 months or 6 months while you peers have worked hard and put in their worth of work? I certainly would not. I would feel ashamed to play the "pregnant" card just to get ahead of others though.

Having babies is a personal conscious choice that people make. Circumstances emanating from this personal choice need to be mitigated at home and not at workplace. USA is a country founded on principles of freedom. With freedom comes responsibility. And you alone are responsible for your choices. Not the one who gives you a job. Not the neighbour who works hard and pays taxes. Let's keep it that way.
At 12:03 PM, Anonymous said…

@anonymous The women who get pregnant are not expecting to be on maternity leave for an year and then get a promotion as soon as they come back. But if they were on maternity leave for 2 months and they worked really hard during the previous 10 months, I don't see why they should be passed on for promotions just because they were off for 2 months to take care of an infant. I am not advocating for people who laze around for an year and expect rewards for efforts that were not put in. I am asking you if it is fair to the people who work very hard and because of pregnancy have to be off for a few months and come back. If the others who were working all the time are worth it, they will get a promotion anyway.
At 9:18 PM, KK said…

My point is NOT to get a free pass in the name of pregnancy but that the sexes should be treated the same way. Is that too much to ask for?
At 9:35 AM, SK said…

If one feels they deserve a promo and they have worked hard for it by all means take it up to management and fight for it. Have facts and proofs and even reviews from peers/managers to back your claim. I learnt the hard way that you have to ask for your promo. If there are two equally qualified candidates for a promo, the one that asks for it gets it. Humility doesn't help here. It just shows that the person who asks wants it more.
In some workplaces actually women are preferred to be promoted when there are limited spots and equally qualified candidates, to improve ratio of women in higher positions.
At 10:06 AM, SK said…

If you are expecting a promo next year through the year leading to it keep asking your boss if you are doing all that is expected to get a promo. Get the expectations, feedback from him and work on it. Sometimes managers are not in the loop with everything you are doing, bring it to their attention. Ask them every two months if you are in the right path and ask for feedback. In spite of all this, two other outcomes are possible. One there might be genuinely someone more ready for a promo than you. Don't stop until you are satisfied as to why. If you still deserve and think your boss it partial because you took time off collect facts and go to HR. Two your boss might really be an AHold at which point time to look for a new boss may be, or if you are ready to fight with him go for it.
At 11:56 AM, Anonymous said…

Hi KK

I was on vacation but could not respond earlier. I have no issues with what you are asking for. Absolutely if a woman (or a man) has 9 months of outstanding performance, there should be no problems with promoting her (or him). In this case your performance merits promotions and I am all for meritocracy.

I only disagree with making it a law. or like "mom on the block" says having an affirmative action in place so you are forced to promote pregnant women. Laws like these are what kill small and big business. I just disagree with people wanting to shift the responsibility of their personal choice and have others pay for it.

Thank you for the conversation.